they paid a negative income tax. we paid duke energy instead of them paying taxes. the guy seems to be so relevant into this fiscal cliff grand bargaining negotiations is grover norquist. did you this story about who is behind grover norquist, and who he really represents, and i think that's a really interesting story. who is the money behind grover? >> well, grover norquist is an interesting guy. he's obviously captured the minds and the attention of the entire republican party. but i would like folks to look at him a little bit differently. if you look at grover norquist's budget because he has a large foundation that enforces his pledge. two-thirds of his money, 66% of his budget comes from only two billionaire-backed non-profits groups founded by folks like the koch brothers, the bekdel corporation and karl rove. they're worth billions of dollars who would not like to see their tax rates go up. it should not be any surprise that they're giving money to norquist as their enforcer. >> cenk: a lot of those are in private equities and defense and, etc. shockingly th